I recently went one-on-one with Amit Chadha, CEO of L&T Technology Services.
Adam: What were the keys to rising in your career?
Amit: Adam, thank you so much for having me here today. So, quick background, I live in the Virginia area. I’ve lived here for more than 20 years. Before that, I was in Omaha, Nebraska, was in Detroit, been around. Today, I’m fortunate to have 24,000-plus member organization that I lead, but with the company for 16 years. When I joined us to hit up markets, we used to be about 1,800 people. So we’ve gone from 1,800 to actually about 17,000 when I took over as CEO, and 24,000 now. I think the key, if you ask me about leadership, and one second, I honestly don’t believe I’ve reached anywhere, right? So it starts there. I also do believe that anybody can be on any side of the screen, any side of the camera, at any given time. So do to others what you would expect others to do to you, right? Some of the things that have guided me through my journey, one, as I played different roles in the organization, have been on a clear scale: be direct, be honest about what you can do. Can’t do what others can do in a situation, and not do so. It starts with that. Second, communicate, because when you communicate, you are, that’s the only medium to bring people together. And third, like I said, have empathy, because all days are not the same. All situations are not the same. If you start on the basis that people come to the workplace or come the, to whatever, you know, you’re working on with the best intent in mind, and then there are situations, you’ll do a lot better. Finally, I believe in making sure that you reach out and create friendships and connections in an organization. Create mentors, seek, create mentors, find, and be mentors to others. So if you do all that, in my view, the rest of it is easy.
Adam: I love it. The most successful leaders possess humility. The most successful leaders have the mindset that you just shared: they don’t spend one minute thinking about how much success they have or one minute thinking about how great they are where they are today. Instead, it’s all about thinking about: how can I get to where I want to be? What work do I need to do to continually grow, to continually get better, to continually improve? It’s that growth mindset, it’s that desire to learn, it’s that dedication to lifelong learning that goes hand in hand with humility. When you think you know it all, that’s when you stop learning, that’s when you stop getting better.
Amit: Absolutely. Adam, very well said. I couldn’t have said it better. I was in INSEAD doing my advanced management program into the earlier about six years ago. You know, Professor Woodward there said a very nice thing. He said, leadership is a journey. It’s not a destination. And, you know, there’s a picture with the woods, and in fact, very honestly, it had a very positive impact on my own leadership style as I looked at it. And how do you take people that are an A-class personality? So everybody is, you know, supercharged and wants to make a difference. How do you funnel that energy in a positive, positive, positive forward direction? It’s not easy. And at times, if you are the leader, and you’re almost like, you know, orchestra, where you are actually the conductor, right? It is to bring different pieces together and provide the space and provide the backing, provide the latitude, provide the authority to them to make the decisions. It’s very key. In fact, one of the things I’m running within the company right now is a series called decision-making without boundaries. So what we’ve done is we’ve got bands in the organization. With 24,000 people, you need to have some sort of hierarchy. We used to have 13 levels. We have gone from 13 levels to seven bands, is actually five bands with two subparts, or seven bands. And we’re saying, I want the top of the company to think about and explain why, the midriff to talk about the what, and then most of the people in the company will actually think about the how. And if you can divide that up, and then we can funnel it back in, into what’s in it for them, I think that creates a winning team or winning combination that can then stand the test of time.
Adam: Leadership is a journey. It’s not a destination. And your journey began with you, not in a leadership role, but in a technical position, not managing people, but as an individual contributor. How did you develop and evolve from an individual contributor to a leader, from a technician to a leader of people?
Amit: So Adam, thank you, Adam. I’m actually been very, very fortunate that early on, while I was growing up in India, my father would actually get the Harvard Business Review from the library, and he would ask us to read it. So I’ve been reading the Harvard Business Review magazine since I was in fifth grade, sixth grade. I couldn’t even make out some of what was being said there, but a lot of that, believe me, stayed there. I saw my dad at very close quarters. Later on, I saw my dad-in-law at very close quarters, and I saw how they were able to build friendships at the workplace, right? There was situations, we were in a small city, there were situations when we would have personal challenges, and how people that worked with them would rally for them, rally for the family. That stayed with me. And people always say, keep your professional life, personal life separate. Yes, it’s, you know, everybody to their own. There’s no single, I said it at the beginning, leadership life is like a literature answer. All 99 can be correct. All 100 can be wrong, right? It’s a situational thing. But I believe that there’s a power to be had if you can think about life as a work, work balance, or a life balance, and you start making those choices early on, you can bring people together. I always believe people work for people, people work with people, people buy from people, people sell to me. In this new world of AI, yes, there is AI, but EQ, along with IQ, is required. You can also call it a human question. People use different words, very important. And it all starts with, if you don’t want it done to you, you should not do it to others. So if you don’t want to put in 20 hours, and you expect, or, you know, in a week, let’s say you want to put in 60 hours, you only want to do 40, you want to go away on vacation, you need to have the same rules for everybody. Everybody’s got a family, everybody’s got a life. We need to be able to think that we are all for one, one for all, and then it will work out. I like that. This is a subject very, very close to my heart. In fact, my first two years as Deputy CEO and president, I actually wrote a lot of articles in there on the blog, and we’ll get, we’ll share it with you. I wrote an article on Managing from the Middle, and then they told me to change. It doesn’t sound good in English, so I changed it to Managing from the Center. And the idea of a conductor at an orchestra really stayed with me as something that’s key on how to deliver a perfect sympathy.
Adam: I like it a lot. And when you think about leaders who fail, and when you think about toxic leaders, oftentimes they are people who set standards that they themselves don’t live up to and that they never have any intention of living up to. And when you think about leaders, who you love working for, love being around, love as people. They are the people who live their words, live their values, don’t have one set of words that they say and one set of principles that they act on. It’s all one in the same, and it’s all about walking the walk and talking the talk. Having that alignment is essential.
Amit: I absolutely agree with you. I couldn’t agree more. In fact, one of the things that one of my mentors told me, and again, I’ve been fortunate, blessed. God has been kind throughout my work life, and throughout my personal life, I’ve always had mentors. There have been times when I’ve looked for answers, and these mentors have stepped in, and they’ve helped in terms of coaching, guiding, very important, so you’re not looking for permission. At some point in my current role, in my previous roles, you don’t have precedence. You’re making, you’re making judgment decisions. In my current role, for the past five years, we’ve been making judgment decisions that have an impact on 24,000 people. I’ll give you an example. I became CEO, and this was during the COVID time. And wave two of COVID, it started in India and in Europe, all over, right? Wave two was coming. It was really bad. And my first job at hand for the first month of my being a CEO was to find oxygen cylinders, finding, you know, the, what do you call it, the respiratory support systems, etc, and provide them to our employees and their families. And we actually gutted our cafeterias in our buildings, and we converted them to residential facilities where people could come in that was sick, our employees and their families could come and get tended to. We were running it with medical staff, and my first 30 days as CEO were to get that done. Was there a book written on it? No, right? And did it cost money? Yes. Did we think about money? No, right? In Germany, the shots were there for vaccination. There were not enough doctors. So I got engaged. What does it take? Well, you can do it, but you got to get a private doctor and a set of doctors that will do it. How much is going to cost? They said it’ll be about a quarter million dollars for about 100 people. I said, do it. I didn’t even ask them. Didn’t even go back to my CFO ask questions. So there are no books written on this. You know, somebody said two things that have stuck with me. Nothing gets you ready to be CEO than being CEO yourself, right? Number one. Number two, which I tried to follow, has been when you are a leader, give more, take less. And this is words that are not mine. These words are from one of my mentor. He says, give more, take less. So give more authority, give more responsibility, give more freedom, ask for less. And if I look at something I look up to, to my role models, is, if you can’t add stuff, don’t take away.
Adam: What a great mindset. Every day, wake up and ask yourself: Am I adding value? Am I adding value to the people around me? Am I adding value to my organization? Am I adding value to my clients, my customers, my stakeholders, my employees? Who am I adding value to and how? And if the answer is no, then how can you get that to be yes? And if the answer is yes, great, you’re doing a great job. And you don’t need to be the CEO to have to ask yourself this question. In fact, you shouldn’t have to be the CEO to ask yourself this question. This should be a question that every single one of us should ask ourselves every day. How am I adding value? And ask it in a very cold, calculated way, objective way.
Amit: Actually, one of the things that I again came back as part of the, you know, life lessons that we’ve gone through, is at the end of every day before you sleep, right, why don’t you put down the five things that you could have done better and the five things that you think you did well, so you only beat yourself, you don’t go to get anywhere, and then you have a different problem. So, five things you could have done better, and five things that you think went well. And I’ll be honest with you, when I started to do this, I used to write it down for one year, every night before I went to sleep. By my bedside table, I actually used to have a sticky note pad next to my bedside, and I’d write it down and then sleep. And I again, there are times when you think about things where you’re sleeping, you get ideas when you wake up. So I originally, I used to have a scratch pad next to my bedside, because if I would have new ideas, I’d put it down, and then it became this scratch pad where you put down three things. I no longer have a scratch pad for it, but I can tell you mentally every day before I sleep, what are the three to five things that I could have done better? What are the three to five things I think I did well that we can repeat, and you don’t need to, Adam, show this to anybody. This is for yourself. In fact, if you look at leadership, there are 3 levels of leadership, if you ask me. There is that 50,000-feet leadership, which is, you know, at a very high level, macro view, macro trends, where are we going? What’s happening? The second level of leadership is that 100-feet, 200-feet leadership, where you are actually getting into execution, and you are getting into the weeds and what’s to do, who’s going to do, what to whom, etc. And then there’s the five-foot leadership, which is within yourself. And I call it five foot because I’m five feet 10. Otherwise, I would have said six-foot leadership, right? But what is that five-foot leadership? That’s your own honest self to yourself, and that is key, because if you’re not honest with ourselves, we cannot lead. At some point your narrative will crack. If you are narrative, if to yourself, if you are narrative to the world, if you are leadership, people look at you and say, here goes somebody that you know, I would love to work, right? I love to be associated with. You’ve got to be able to have that, shall I say, you need to be centered. Very important. And that’s that five-foot leadership, internalizing it, learning from it, being honest with yourself. There have been times, and I’ll be very honest with you, there have been times where we’ve had a rough day at work. It happened yesterday, we had a rough day on something. And I mean, I was fairly upset with somebody, and I did let that be known to them, that, look, I’m not very happy. And I would, if I was you, I would have done this better. I thought through it in the night yesterday, and I thought I’d been a little too harsh. So my second call in the morning today, and I woke up for my first call was at five. My second call at 5:30 was to this individual, and I said, look, yesterday, I was a little hard on you, and I think I was a little unfair, so I don’t want you to take this negatively. It was maybe a result of other things. And if there’s an apology due, an apology from me is in order, and therefore is to you. But if you don’t think there’s an apology in order, I don’t want to acknowledge and tell you I should not have had this conversation with you. Should have been done differently now. And the reason I’m saying is, unless you clear about yourself now, it’s not like you keep doing the same thing again and again, and then the guy will say, you know what? These calls make no sense to me. But if you can learn, if you can change, if you can adapt, my view gives you a lot of mental happiness, and I’m sorry. One more thing, we’ve had to make some difficult decisions in the last five years as CEO, and before that, in my other roles, we’ve had to separate people from the company. We’ve had to sign off and say we won’t work on these contracts. There are ideas people bring up. We have had to say, no, we will not do it. And as long as we can do it, being honest, being direct, and provide the merits and the demerits of it, and why are we doing it? My view, so it’s a lot easier than a top-down approach saying, you know, done, gone, finished, over. It takes time. And sorry you haven’t asked me this, but I will say this to you, the one thing that NCR taught me was take the time. It may take an extra day to get people on board. It may take an extra couple of hours of conversations, so it puts pressure on yourself. I mean, I still don’t know what happens to my calendar. I blame my admin for it, and I tell her that she and I worked together for seven years. I said, one thing we haven’t been both been able to figure out is my calendar, right? It creates a lot of pressure. It takes away a lot of personal time. It’s not a 40-hour week. I don’t even count the number of hours, but believe me, if you can take the time, bring people along, there’s nothing more powerful than that.
Adam: Something that you mentioned, which I love in the age of AI, the two most important letter might still be EQ. How can anyone develop their EQ?
Amit: That’s a difficult one. Some people are born with it. Some people are just natural leaders. They’re born. Others like us, like me, have to develop. It happens by reading, reading the room. It starts with empathy. Actually, if you ask me, if we start with a basic premise, everybody is here to do good. It’s not the intent to do bad. Yes, they may not know how to do it. And can we coach? Can we train? Or if I don’t have the time, can I put them to somebody that can coach and train? Now, there are, I’m not saying the perfect world. I mean, there are people that don’t have it. They come to work, they come to the workplace, or they come to a place, they say, I’m not going to do good. And then there are different answers for that. You shouldn’t be worried about. So that’s, so from an EQ standpoint, it comes with time. It comes with reading people, reading situations, being empathetic, and having the ability to listen, listen, notice, observe, those three key things in my view, that can build that up. I think be aware. Be aware.
Adam: Yeah, I think a big part of it is genuinely trying to understand what other people are experiencing, genuinely trying to understand what other people are going through. What is your lived experience? Your lived experience is going to be different than my lived experience. It starts listening. It starts with caring. It starts with genuinely wanting to understand others, genuinely wanting to understand what other people have gone through, are going through, and you can’t fake that. You can’t fake caring about other people if you genuinely want to know what other people are going through. And a lot of it really comes down to curiosity. And to that end, can one become more curious? Can curiosity be developed and cultivated? And if so, how?
Amit: See it all goes back to, like you said, it all goes back. You are wanting to learn new things, and if you think you’re done, I don’t need to know more. I know everything. Then you’re done, and then there’s, there’s no change. But you said it right, I mean, it’s all, it all starts with wanting to know more. First of all, letting your guard down, and coming to the basic promise that I don’t know enough. I don’t know everything. Then you start with asking the questions. Then you ask a noticing, then you look at and then, then it goes on from there. I mean, I had my niece here over, over on, on Thanksgiving. And you know, she’s an editing director or managing director for her play in school, right? So I was sitting with her, and, you know, she was telling me about her play, and I asked her, I said, what’s that one thing that you find toughest, right? And it’s a child. I mean, she’s, she’s in eighth grade or ninth grade, something like that. Maybe she’s in 10th grade, right, okay, but right. And she tells me that, you know, people don’t listen to me. So I told her, I said, have you tried reasoning? Say, what do you mean by that? I said, have you brought them together on a common purpose? And she couldn’t get it, so I said, have you told them that you need to be number one in production in your county? Your play needs to be number one in production in your county, and therefore you need to do the following four things. And I said, and instead of then taking the responsibility, why don’t you just break it up on them, do it. You know, her reaction was, when I say all this, they all will think I’m talking too much and too big. So you have to simplify it. I took another 10 minutes to simplify it for her. The point is, Adam, everybody doesn’t understand the same language; whatever you and I do and say may not be perceived in the same way at different levels. So we will need to learn, along with being curious and learning, the ability to go up and down sideways, to make sure we are able to bring people together on different platforms with different sets of way of communicating. It’s very key.
Adam: You shared two points there that are such key pieces to effective leadership. The first point is that leadership starts with setting a clear vision. And a compelling vision doesn’t have to be your vision, but it has to be a vision that people are going to want to rally around. It can be a financial vision: we’re currently doing $1.2 billion, let’s do $1.5 billion. It could be: let’s become the number one production in our county, in our region, in our state, in the country. Let’s be the best baseball team in the city, in the state, in the country. But you have to have a goal. Something that I talk a lot about is the importance of having a definition for success. And your definition of success can be different than my definition of success, but without a definition of success, it’s going to be exponentially harder to become successful, because what are you working toward? What is the goal that you’re trying to achieve? You need to understand what that North Star is. And as a leader, your job is to define success. Define success for yourself, define success for your team, for your organization, so that everyone is working in alignment toward that shared goal, toward that shared definition of success.
Amit: I absolutely agree. I mean, I think you’ve said it very well. Adam, in fact, if you look at it, is winning most important, or is playing most important? Right? It’s often it’s a big thing, right? Is winning more important? Is playing more important? I believe, if you ask me defining a goal, it starts with that. You could also have a goal that I will do nothing. It’s a goal, right? It’s a goal. My wife and I were talking about, you know, once we finished our professional career, what do we do after this? And we talked about trying to do, you know, A, B, C, and she said, you’re not one of those who will sit idly. I’m sure you will do something, and I’m not gonna sit idly. I said, fine, but we can define that. We will do nothing for one year. Or we will do nothing for two years, and then we define the nothing. Now, the point of making is that as long as you can define it, then start stuff, you start building up towards it, right? Then you will marshal the resources. You will marshal the kinetic energy needed. Look, I’m an engineer, right? So I like to say that you should use the potential energy to people, galvanize them with a goal and a direction and a purpose, to convert that to kinetic energy. And once you’ve converted, converted into kinetic energy, things happen.
Adam: 1,000%. The other point you made, which is so important, you have to make sure that you’re speaking in the language that the people who you’re communicating with not only understand but appreciate. If you’re speaking to engineers, there’s a pretty good chance you’re gonna have to speak in a different language than when you’re speaking to MBAs.
Amit: Yes, yes, absolutely. In fact, one of the things that you know we’ve, in fact, in this AI world, we have created something called an ROI calculator, right? So for our business clients that you go to, we talk about AI. We leave behind with them. It’s a mathematical equation that we leave with them. And we say, you play with it to figure out where your ROI is. So, so a lot of times you have to be able to change the way you talk, what you do, what you say, but as long as across cultures, if you ask me, because we, I mean, I’m again fortunate to lead a team of multiple cultural descendants, right, and ethnicities and diversity. So you will need to be able to broad base that so it can be understood across rank and file, across stakeholders, across countries that you got. The most interesting one was when you go to Japan, right? And I can’t understand Japanese, right, but I’ve learned how to bow right. After meeting, we met somebody last week downtown DC, and after I finished the meeting, I reflexively, you know, bowed at saying bye and not, you know, the complete bow like a 30 degree, right? And my wife was with me, and she said, really, are you in Japan? I said, become intuitive. What do I do? It’s a form of respect. And I think, you know, you’re going to show respect to somebody. I mean, you all I’m saying is you’ve got to be able to do this where you’re able to bring people along. It’s all part of that. So, so the other dimension of leadership is, how do you operate across cultures, across time zones, across different ethnicities, across different, different diverse groups, to be able to bring it together. Because it’s not a unipolar world. It’s not a unipolar workforce.
Adam: What are the keys to leading a culture of innovation?
Amit: So, thank you for asking that. In fact, I should share with you, as engineers, we measure everything. It’s a habit. So 9% of our workforce, in 2021 as I took over as CEO, were engaged in technology-related, non-billable activities. So we are a consulting company, right? So there’s 40 hours of consulting that everybody has to put in, bill a client, you build a project, etc. Beyond that, how many of them are engaged in, writing a paper, filing a patent, going and teaching technology in colleges or schools, right? Hosting a master class in 5G or digital, digital manufacturing or whatever. So, so we’ve got, we were, we’ve got, we measured that 9% of the workforce was engaged in stuff like that. Today, 49% is engaged in these activities. And we’ve gone from filing 25 patents for ourselves and 25 for our customers every quarter every year, to filing 25 plus 25 every quarter. So we have 4x that level of innovation quotient, as I call it. Key to that has been broad basing the appeal that technology innovation can be done anywhere by anybody, working in the work groups, not only by a certain set of people, and it can apply to a multitude of disciplines, rather than just an area. So it’s not just in software. You could actually do innovation in mechanical engineering. You could do it in electrical engineering. You could do it in the manufacturing shop floor. So we have broad-based the definition. We have broad-based the applicability. Third is providing the tools to them to be able to do it. So we’ve opened up. We’ve got 100-plus labs in the company. We’ve opened them up to anybody and everybody that wants to work on it. That’s in the company. There’s a booking mechanism. You can book it, and you can go use it, dabble with your ideas, play with it, decide what you want to do. So, be able to provide them the opportunity to provide, so at a broad level, provide it, open the definition up multiple areas, provide a platform and resources people need, and provide coaching and guidance as they need it, and that has been key, in my view, to create the culture of innovation in the company. Also everything doesn’t go right all the time. We have the ability, therefore, to do a closed loop where we go in and provide the feedback or what could have been done better, and so we can change. And lastly, what we’ve done in the company is we’ve broken the company up into, like I said, we’ve gone from a hierarchical 13-level structure to a seven-band structure. And we’ve also broken up the company for people that want to grow up and become managers, as opposed to people that want to grow up and become technologists. And we’re providing career paths on both the sides to be able to take it forward, not just that, even on functions like finance, HR administration, we provide the ability to people to work, and then if they want to change and go to something else, we are happy to provide an opportunity.
Adam: We spoke about the two letters EQ. We didn’t really speak about the other two letters: AI. How do you see technology shaping the work that you do today? How do you see technology shaping the work that you will do tomorrow?
Amit: AI is the single biggest disruptor with the magnitude. And you know, if it was an earthquake rector scale, it is towards the most upper end, if you ask me. It creates an amazing opportunity for this generation to actually create do a lot more with less, so with the kind of compute powers available today, a lot more crunching of data, punching of numbers, programming, testing, and designing can be done by AI. We will need to ask the right questions and provide the right parameters. Second, the AI can actually process humongous amounts of data that was not possible earlier at lower price points, so it’s affordable, so that we are able to make decisions faster, and we are able to actually take more of the decisions that we were earlier going to make, to be able to bring forward a lot of timelines, agendas, etc. So I believe it’s a big net positive. The thing to think about is that there will have to be a recalibration of skills in the workforce, and that’s a little painful. Change is painful, always, but there will be a recalibration and needed, much-needed, recalibration of workforce that will be required in the workforce in about happening now about five years time. See, if you go back 15 years or go back 20 years, right, digital was not even a word. Connected devices, connected people, you being able to watch your favorite game on the phone, etc, was not even possible 25 years ago. Today, it’s a norm. You cannot imagine a life without, and you will have the same thing in about five, seven years with AI. So it’s all pervasive. It’s all inclusive. It will have an impact. But the EQ part is not going to go away. EQ plus AI is a deadly combination. I love that.
Adam: What are the keys to leading globally?
Amit: The number one, and could be multiple things, but what I’ve seen in my experience, you know, it all comes down to give more, take less. I’ll tell you why I work across time zones, right? It starts with that. So when I start with Japan, I actually start at 5:00 am East Coast time. It’s still not very late in Japan. And then I moved to talking to people in India, talking to people in Europe. And finally, come to the US. I do it to the US time zone, normally by lunchtime. But what I’ve done with that is I’ve started by providing the platform to people to come and say he’s not making us work extra hours or a night. He’s actually trying to make efforts to be in our time zone, right? It starts with that. Second has got to be sensitive to cultural nuances. You will not believe in a festival, you may not believe in a holiday, you may not believe in a theme, but that country, the people there, do, and it’s your duty to provide the respect and the space, right? Third world over, if you can respect people’s weekends, please do. The last thing you want to do as a leader, I say, great, let’s see this on Monday. Well, you know what you just did? You’ve actually spoiled their weekend. So if you don’t have to look, there will be times, and I’m not trying to be super nice and all that, there will be times you need to, I mean, you come to a come to our company quarter close is crazy. I mean, I know that from the 30th of the month right up to the sixth or eighth of the following month. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a weekend or a weekday. We are at it, but then you don’t need to do it every week, right? See, one thing has changed, Adam, post Covid, and more so in not in the US, maybe in the US as well. In the US, we used to always do, like, four days in the office and one day at home. A lot of us have been blessed with having enough space in our homes we can do a day from the home office, right? There’s been, normally, you’ve been other than that, if you’ve got a factory job with a different issue, but software programming services sector is normally done four and a half days in the office, and done about half a day at home, etc. Normal. Post Covid, a lot of people are spending time and working from home. Nowyou’re no longer decompressing when you’re driving back from work, you actually walking from one room to another, and you’re carrying with you what happened at the workplace. So if we can, as leaders, keep that in mind, if we can make it enjoyable so they don’t have a problem about work, and they can transition easily, you would have created a great place to work where people would like to come back next day. Very small, very small things, but it matters, and that then weaves into the culture and takes it from there.
If you look at leadership, I think as long as you can be inclusive, right, credible, and oriented towards a goal and growth, I my view, you’ve achieved, you’ve then taken a big cohort along with you to do it. I always like to say that it takes a village to raise a child. So, actually, it takes a village to raise a CEO. It can’t be done alone.
Adam: How can anyone find a great mentor? How can anyone be a great mentor?
Amit: You have to seek. You have to be open to seek. My first mentor was actually my grandmother. My second one was my dad, then my dad-in-law, then at work, I was fortunate to have three mentors that worked, that have, that have guided me. You have to be humble enough to seek, and if you’re willing to seek, you will always find people that are willing to give. [And as far as being a great mentor,] you have to be able to be in a position to say, I’m willing to teach, I’m willing to coach, I am not in competition. Look, I’m as competitive as they come, right? But I’m willing to teach, I’m willing to coach, I’m willing to create a legacy. I’m wanting others to do well. I want others to do it. And my first mentee actually was somebody that worked with me about 20 years ago, and then it’s gone from there. I’ve offered my mentoring to my children. They don’t want it. Separate issues, separate day, separate discussion…
