I recently went one-on-one with Christina Schelling, Chief Talent Officer of Verizon.
Adam: Your career trajectory is a case study in talent mobility. What were the keys to rising in your career, and what advice do you have for leaders on the topic of talent mobility?
Christina: I wish I could take credit for such a planful path! The truth is, I had some thoughts on what I wanted to do and what I didn’t want to do, but a lot of it came down to working hard, trying new things, being open to what you may not know you like, and giving it a shot. I also prioritized working for great leaders and took jobs to grow under great leadership, as opposed to taking jobs for the work I would be doing. That changed my trajectory.
I have seen a lot of experts get too senior in a specialized silo and then are unable to advance to positions they want. You have to grow skills, meet different people, and learn different industries. Collect as many experiences as you can to set yourself up to be the most qualified for what is next. The more experiences and relationships you collect, the more competitive you are for a lot of jobs.
Adam: What are the types of experiences that anyone should focus on trying to collect as they are rising in their careers?
Christina: Early on, you should take all the options and opportunities. You don’t know what you don’t know. The more you experience, the more you’ll learn about what you like and what you don’t.
Beyond that, do your homework and own your own journey. Explore options within your company and reach out to people whose work is interesting to you.
I started my career after graduate school at the Central Intelligence Agency as a leadership analyst. To get from where I was to where I am today, well, I collected a lot of experiences along the way. But there are clear threads that connect these roles: My first job ended up being a great foundation that I could build on as I took on leadership responsibilities.
I cannot tell you how many times I reach out to people in my network. Whether we connected years or months ago, if I have a job to fill, need help with a problem, or am in need of someone who will give it to me straight, I’m not afraid to reach out.
I have stayed connected to so many different people who I have ended up working with multiple times in my career. I also get great ideas and perspectives from people who do not think like me, which is hugely important.
As a leader, you are only as good as the people who want to work for and with you. The more you practice giving advice or mentoring, the more you set yourself up for success.
Adam: How, as a leader, do you think about talent mobility? Why is it important from a leadership perspective, and what is your talent mobility strategy?
Christina: Let’s start at the enterprise level. From a senior leader’s perspective, it’s about making sure we have the people we need to do the job, both today and in the future, accounting for factors like where the market is going and where the supply-demand ratio is for talent. We have to be super thoughtful about our talent strategy because that supply and demand for specialized talent isn’t always in our favor. At a large company like Verizon, where we have over 100,000 people in our workforce, we have to tap into the talent we have so that we can re-recruit and redeploy, create amazing leaders, and help people advance through the organization. You can’t have a successful, long-term business strategy without strong internal mobility.
At the same time, employees have their own aspirations for learning, development, and career advancement. When a company enables internal mobility as part of its culture, people feel like they can grow, develop, and advance without having to leave. At Verizon, we built a tool called Talent GPS, and it is just like it sounds. An employee can put in a job they aspire to – it could even be a job that would take seven or ten years to get to, or it could be in a completely different job family –and our tools will map out what moves are needed to get to that place, including training, certifications, and different jobs to take along the way.
Employees may have a manager who is a career coach for them, a mentor, or an HR professional, and with this, they can be their own coach too. We enable it at that employee level for engagement and development. At the same time, we make sure we have the right skills and capabilities to move our people accordingly and maintain our position of strength in the market. It’s a way of building from within to secure our future.
Adam: How do you leverage AI for recruiting, and what advice do you have for anyone on how to leverage AI for recruiting?
Christina: We use AI for more than recruiting, for example internal mobility, which is recruiting your own employees. We have a lot of amazing employees who want different jobs at Verizon, so we want to make sure we’re sourcing them as effectively as we source external candidates.
So, let’s start with the internal piece. With the help of AI, our tools suggest jobs and training based on an employee’s skill set and profile. They might not know that they were qualified for these jobs, especially if they did not know the job titles. We match skills and experiences to qualified roles.
To make this work, we needed to have the data on the jobs themselves. Without data for our internal employees, the matching is not as rich. We cannot see strengths or gaps in skillsets. So, using AI, we pulled publicly available information and infused it into employee profiles. We gave everyone the option to opt out, but almost 100 percent participated and loved it. Many said things like “I would have never thought to include this as part of my profile, but it makes sense.”
How does this work externally? We use AI to cast a wide net and attract great talent. We are also on a journey to improve the candidate experience with the help of AI. It can provide quick answers to common questions and can be where humans cannot be all of the time to enable candidates with the information they need. We are really excited about the possibilities and are always testing and learning new capabilities as they become available.
I think a lot about the profile of a great leader. We train over 20,000 leaders a year at Verizon, from first-time leaders all the way to the top of our organization. While the core attributes of great leadership have been consistent for a long time, some qualities that used to be “nice to have” are now essential for everyone.
You mentioned data literacy. Five to ten years ago, we would have said those were absolute requirements for someone in IT or customer insights, but a “nice to have” for everyone else. Now, those are necessary qualifications for almost every job, and especially for any leader. The evolution of AI and the way we work has changed the weight of certain attributes, as well as the complexity required to demonstrate them. But getting back to your point, HR practitioners and many others need to be data-fluent to be great at their jobs.
Adam: What are the most significant turnover trends that leaders should be aware of, and what should they understand about them?
Christina: I might have a different point of view than others on turnover. Of course, I want to see low attrition as a whole because that signals that people want to work at Verizon, and it strengthens the sustainability of performance. Of course, we want to retain good talent.
That said, I think it is healthy for people to move to different organizations in the same way I think it is healthy for people to move to different jobs internally. I do not necessarily think it is the worst thing when great leaders continue to grow and get great jobs at other companies or in other industries to expand their own resumes. I think about it from an employee brand perspective, too. If great people don’t move on, then people at other companies do not know that Verizon creates great leaders. Conversely, if we do not hire leaders externally, nobody knows how wonderful it is to work here. So, I do think a certain amount of movement is healthy.
My goal always is to create the most highly poachable leaders. I want people at other organizations, when they’re searching for executives, to say, “Look at Verizon. They are known for strong leadership.” And then I want the challenge of retaining those people. It’s a bit of offense and defense. I really like the idea of having a highly poachable workforce for all the reasons I described, and then the challenge of creating the environment where that workforce wants to stay every day.
Adam: What do you believe are the key characteristics of a great leader, and what can anyone do to become a better leader?
Christina: I think everybody needs to continuously improve as a leader. You never truly arrive or master it. The more senior you get, the less transparent the feedback you receive, because there is always a filter applied. So, I would offer a few pieces of advice:
First, make it as easy as possible for people to give it to you straight. You can do this by showing vulnerability and saying, “I did not feel great about that outcome,” or “I was trying to position it this way. I just do not know if it landed. What do you think?” You need that feedback to grow. You also need truth tellers: people who will keep it real with you, even if it hurts a little bit to hear. They are really important for leadership development.
Second, get a lot of practice. We talk about athletes having multiple coaches and training for hours a day to get better. We need to apply similar thinking to leadership. You get on-the-job training, but it can’t stop there. Maybe take on a nonprofit leadership role, whether it is at a school or for a cause you feel passionate about. At companies like Verizon, we have employee resource groups where you can take on leadership roles to represent your community and steer certain experiences for the workforce.
Third, lead something you are not an expert in. This forces you to hone in on the attributes of good leadership when you do not have the experience of doing the work yourself. It helps you elevate your perspective, learn from others, and be thoughtful about how you staff a team that is complementary to your own weaknesses. This goes back to the nonprofit example: leadership with personality and influence is better leadership than leadership with position or authority.
Another easy thing you can do, and it sounds so simple, but it is really hard for people to do, is admit when you are wrong. Own it, apologize clearly for it, and ask for help with the learning. It shows awareness, humility, and vulnerability. This is a real strength, not a weakness, and it contributes to significant growth.
It’s funny, I interview quite a few executives, and one of the questions I often ask is, “When was the last time you were wrong, made a mistake, or had to apologize, and tell me about that?” You learn a lot from how people respond.
I would [also add the importance of’] inspiring and motivating others to join you. All these things are hugely important and related to being a good coach. You have to set a vision and a strategy, but it won’t work unless people buy in and go along with you. Coaching plays a big role in that.
When I talk about those attributes, people assume I’m describing an extrovert, but that is not always true. You can absolutely set a vision, build a strategy, and influence in your own, authentic way. That’s the real magic. Being authentic is important because the more relatable and human you are, the more people will feel connected to you and want to follow your lead.
Being a good listener is also really important: somebody who reads the room well and has organizational savvy. Someone who builds bridges between ideas and solicits input from everyone on the team, including from the person who may not have the loudest voice. This ensures you avoid groupthink and creates an inclusive atmosphere. Another important trait is the ability to make decisions. It sounds simple, but you would be surprised how many people struggle with being the one to make the final call. Of course, you work with your team, network, and partners. But at some point, the leader has to make the call. It’s a balance of art and science. It’s about data, but it is also about judgment. It is about perspectives and input from others, but sometimes it is just an instinct, too.
You also have to be curious, especially in the age of AI. You have to want to learn things and be willing to try them. You have to accept that perfection is not usually the first outcome. Historically, it was about a linear path, A to B to C, and only telling people about your successes. Now, it’s about progress and resilience, the ability to learn, adjust, and move on quickly. That starts with being curious.
And finally, being courageous is more important than ever. That means having the courage to take a risk, try something bold, or bet on someone on your team. It also means having the courage to do the right thing, even when it is unpopular or really hard. There is an element of selflessness and being focused on the greater good of your team, your company, and the world. I always like leaders to use more “we’s” than “me’s” when they talk about their experience.
Adam: What can anyone do to become more successful, personally and professionally?
Christina: A lot of it comes down to the attributes we just talked about. You have to be a lifelong learner, an observer of life. You have to try new things and have courage. You also have to be self-aware, and you will need help with that. Even the most self-aware people need a truth teller to help them with their blind spots.
It’s also hugely important to recognize that you get better with others. There’s only so much you can do alone. You need others to become your best you.
