I recently interviewed General Gary Brito on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:
Adam: Our guest today is a retired four-star general who was responsible for recruitment, retention, and training across the United States Army. General Gary Brito was the commanding general of the United States Army Training and Doctrine Command and the Deputy Chief of Staff G-1 of the United States Army. General Brito, thank you for joining us.
General Brito: Hey, Adam, thank you for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you and the audience as well. I always used to shy away from the term dream job, but that was a dream job, and really had a great team of military and civilian professionals to get it done.
Adam: We’re going to talk a lot about teamwork and leadership over the course of the conversation, but before we do, I want to go back to your early days. You grew up in Hyannis, Massachusetts, and growing up, the last thing on your mind was joining the Army. Can you take listeners back to those days? What early experiences and lessons shaped your worldview and shaped the trajectory of your success?
General Brito: In Hyannis, Massachusetts. I like to say we were on the blue-collar side of the tracks. It was a very blue-collar town. My mother was a waitress her entire life. My father’s a truck driver; he still does that. My grandfather was a truck driver. I had a few relatives that were World War II or Vietnam vets, but that was the gap. So, family-wise, there wasn’t a lot of military influence outside of being drafted and serving, but we had a large family. We literally had many family members on the same street, from great-grandfather down, a couple aunts and uncles, and just grew up that way.
So work ethic, treating everybody with dignity and respect, all of that was just day-one stuff. You work, but you didn’t go to the beach. You work, you didn’t get anything. So it built those values, which Adam, I saw to be very important and critical later on in the Army. Now, to your exact question, I had no desire for the military. I didn’t know much about it, but we moved away for a few years from Hyannis, then we moved back later on when I was in high school.
My mom remarried. My stepdad was in the Navy, and we lived in Norfolk, Virginia, for some time, Connecticut for some time. They separated, then we moved back. To fast forward from little boy through high school and graduated, I applied to Penn State University, borrowed some money to apply for Penn State University, and decided I was going to go after visiting it. Within that first semester, I was walking by an information booth. This is a true story. Walking by an information booth on the Altoona campus of Penn State University, and the ROTC captain handed me a brochure and said, “Hey, come check it out.”
I can’t recall if I’ve even heard of Army ROTC prior to that moment, and I said I’ll check it out. So I went to a few of the classes. I liked the outdoor activities we were doing. I was a freshman in college, and it was a very rural campus, so I really wanted to do it as an extracurricular activity, something to do when you get a grade, but something adventurous to do. And that was the beginning of the bug that excited me while I was a non-scholarship cadet, and partly because of grades in the beginning, I didn’t qualify or know much about it.
Fast forward, I just stuck through the program, and when I decided this is for me was at what was then called the ROTC Advanced Camp, and mine was at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, along with many. Now it’s called Cadet Summer Training, and it’s at Fort Knox. My last command was during that camp. I said, “This is for me, I like it, and I want to be an infantry officer.” And I decided at that point, commit and contract and go on.
Adam: You decided to commit. You decided to join the Army, and you initially decided to join the Army for a bit, not for 38 and a half years. What compelled you to make a career in the Army, and what were the keys to becoming so successful within the Army? What were the keys to going from recruit to four-star general?
General Brito: I was going to do four years. My minimum obligation was four years, and I was going to do that and get out, and that was the initial plan all along. I think, Adam, what inspired me, and probably others, one, the challenge. I did like the responsibility that came with leadership. I really enjoyed, and still do, if you would see a young soldier, a young lieutenant, once I moved beyond that rank, really become the best version of themselves. And if something I was involved with helped do that, that was inspirational.
And then there was some security that came with the military as well. But I just liked the profession. I see it and say it that way now, and I really do that. I experienced as a lieutenant, first assignment in Germany all the way through, and had some professionally developed assignments that I now know were professional development assignments that helped get along that path. Now, I’ll be very honest with you, never once planned, dreamt about, or had the goal to be a general officer, because it wasn’t on my horizon.
At around the 10-year point in the career, I committed to staying in to 20, wanted to be a battalion commander, which happened around year 17 and a half-ish, so with the rank of lieutenant colonel. That was the goal. I want to do that and get that far, but was blessed and fortunate with opportunities to continue on. Four-star, definitely did see once you made general, there’s other people in your ecosystem to help manage that for you.
But again, I would say even with all that, Adam, something I learned as a second lieutenant was to always focus on that soldier, focus on the soldier, focus on the soldier, not your evaluation reports. Everything will be fine. Adam, I used that as the guidepost, as my true north. In every single assignment, whether it’s staff or command level, had both, just like many. But that was the why. Why put the boots on? The why you’re serving, the why you’re taking care of people. That, in essence, was the inspiration, and the clock went very quickly. Twenty felt like 20. Thirty-eight went like that, but even with that, good and bad times, just like any profession, but more good than not. And so felt very blessed for the opportunity.
Adam: You make it sound so simple, but when you boil it down, there is a simplicity to it, which is that if you join the military and your focus is, I want to become a four-star general, you’re going to be a lot less likely to become a four-star general. If you join an organization and you say, I am going to be the CEO, people are going to sniff that. The people who rise to the top are the people who are focused on being the best leader that they can be. And how are you the best leader that you can be? By focusing on the people who you lead, on elevating the people who you lead, on bringing out the best of the people who you lead, in your words, not on your own evaluation, but on your people, on your troops.
General Brito: I agree with you fully, and I will attribute it to some non-commissioned officers I had in the beginning. It was a non-commissioned officer, a master sergeant in the Army, who told me just that: take care of your troops, not your evaluation. Everything’s gonna be okay. And I was a second lieutenant in the Army, probably had no idea what the hell he was talking about at that point, but it resonated throughout, and I learned a lot of lessons throughout.
To your point, I’m so glad you brought that up for anybody in the audience, whether military, all ROTC, the cadets, firefighters, SVPs, CEOs, anything. When you serve those that you’re privileged to lead, your organization will do better. If you’re serving you yourself, and you’re serving your label, and I can just use my infantry lens on this one, if you’re doing that, someone’s going to get hurt. Somebody may get killed based off you taking care of you and not them.
That’s why you take the oath. That’s what makes this a profession, and other professions do it as well: a set of values, an oath, and you’re contracted as well. I mentioned an earlier discussion of being involved heavily with recruiting, the beginning of this last command that I was in, this last position, and it dawned on me then that not only are you serving the soldier, but you have, my words, a handshake with the moms and dads and families supporting them in this volunteer service. Take that seriously. I have shared that with many in uniform. Take that seriously.
Take the uniform off, I would say you could probably share the same with a private business CEO or SVP. People in the organization matter, and perhaps I’m a little overboard on that. I’ll own it, but people in an organization matter. So giving them a level of selfless leadership is critical. On that, it takes some time. Second Lieutenant Smith will not be the best selfless leader in the beginning. They’re going to learn over time, one, through some professional training that all the services give, and I’m sure the corporate world does as well, but some bumps and bruises also just doing it, some wrinkles in your eyes, my words in this case.
My sense is that could apply to all, so investing in your talent management and leadership, making tough decisions. Talent management may mean that not everybody’s got to get a trophy, and maybe not everybody deserves it. That may be part of it as well. And then developing the bench behind you. How do you build trust? Honesty helps build trust. Risk helps build trust. Delegation helps build it. So I learned that in the latter half of the career, within the general officer timeframe. Learned it more in spades, should I say. Really started to learn early on due to some great deliberate mentorship, and more just from watching some folks and making some mistakes every now and then, but wake up the next day to turn that mistake into something positive. That was the mindset. You got me on a roll here, but I’ll slow down and turn the mic back over to you.
Adam: I love it. What do you believe are the key qualities among the very best leaders, and what can anyone do to become a better leader?
General Brito: Well, certainly, I’m sure you’ve heard this before in your vast experience and career, humility. You must stop reading your own press and think you don’t have a bad day, or all your jokes are funny. Humility is key, and then, through time, I think some self-awareness. I want to give some examples on that. Adam, self-awareness, and there’s connection with the humility piece as well, because part of that self-awareness, you may see something. Gee, I don’t like that. I looked in the mirror, and this is not a good trait, or I received some feedback, and it’s not a good trait. So I have the humility to work on that.
There are some professional tools out there that uniform leaders, corporate leaders, and others can get, some personality tests, and some other types of exams that help you see yourself. When you get the feedback, and it could be through some counseling with a mentor, a formal senior rater, or just a peer, so when you get that feedback, don’t be afraid to take action on it if you can. It may be, how do I improve my communication skills? How do I write better? How do I work on being approachable to folks or accessible? Even it takes some time, and it takes some opportunities to be that level leader.
I would say humility, for one, accessibility, a strong character. Care about your reputation. Character is important. Be an honest person, because if you’re not an honest person, you will have a problem gaining and developing trust within your organization. And I’ve seen that within my general officer career, for sure. And then, lastly, just recognize the value of the person within the organization, and command climate means a lot, and the environment means a lot. It did to me anyway. I can’t say it did for everybody, but all that is part of that mix in the big pot of leadership.
I know for sure in the military, and I know corporate organizations do, as many professional organizations that offer a level of professional education on this, and that’s all very helpful. And then you apply it to my non-scientific comparison. Apply all that to your personality. Like, I know I talk with hand and arm signals, might not be the best, but it’s my style. Others have it as well. So know your personality and how you communicate, how you want to manage your schedule, how you do decisions in the leadership position. All that may help, whether you’re overseeing a platoon of 35 people or an organization of 40,000, and leverage and empower those in your organization to do their job, help you with the mission, help you manage risk and make decisions. All of that will hopefully put a lot of wind in the sail behind you as a leader in your organization as well.
Adam: I love that. Understand the core principles of effective leadership are universal, and you named so many of them: humility, self-awareness, love of people. The list goes on and on and on, but at the same time, know thyself. Understand who you are as a human being. Understand that your uniqueness will shape the way that you are going to be able to lead most effectively. If you try to emulate the person next to you, you’re not going to be the best version of yourself possible. Learn from the greats, learn from the best, understand how the most successful leaders lead, but at the same time understand who you are, know what you bring to the table, and lead to the best of your own personal abilities.
General Brito: Spot on that. You just defined it well. I failed to mention this. There’s some literature out there on it. I first read about it in a Harvard Business Review many years ago at an airport, actually, on authentic leadership. Those in your, I want to use the word formation, but your organization, they’ll see through it in 10 nanoseconds if you’re not authentic and genuine. It’ll be hard pressed for you to lead that organization. Easy when times are going well, hard when you have an issue, if you’re not an authentic, reliable leader, and it’s when things are hard or big risk or go against the culture, but yet still has to be done. It could be combat, it could be organizational change, it could be a reduction in personnel, and all that’s not something you want to bring to the office, but if you’re a trustworthy, authentic leader from the beginning, that’ll help get the coalition behind you. You wouldn’t need it the most. An old staff sergeant I had when I was a lieutenant, actually, said, “Sir, you know, you don’t want to turn around, and nobody’s there,” and that makes sense. So I apply that to decision-making as well.
Adam: And you’ve led in some extremely difficult situations. You mentioned combat; you’ve led in combat. You’ve mentioned times of significant change; you’ve led through times of significant change. What are the keys to leading through change, leading through adversity, leading through crisis?
General Brito: That’s a good one, and I will say that, although I felt good going into this major change, and one was this last command that I actually inactivated, and it was a huge organizational restructure for the Army, and it was important, but learned a lot through the process. The first thing that I knew was important, and saw it throughout, was communications, whether it’s good, bad, or ugly, communications, and something as simple as having a town hall, where everybody was in the conference room, and saying, “Here’s what’s going on, here’s what I know, here’s what I don’t know, but here’s the goal we’re getting at, and I’m going to help you get there.”
Then, when the communications was accepted, then you can start building a plan, and I won’t call it a strategy, but in this case, it was a plan, strategy, some objectives to get to the end state that had to be delivered. Also, Adam, I want to flip the script a little bit, and do a personal after-action review. If I were sitting in front of a group of leaders or CEOs today, I would share with them first, when you get something big like that, whether driving change or merger or reorganization, do a self-assessment as well. I want to explain, the leader or the person in charge also has to believe in the mission that needs to be conducted or the problems that they’ve been given to solve, because if you don’t believe it, you’re not going to put your shoulders behind it. It will be noticed that you’re not authentic in what you’re trying to get this team to do.
So you have to believe it as well, because that is also going to lead to building a level of trust in the formation, in the organization. You allow to delegate things that need to happen, so all that’s important. And then I will share with you, depending upon the scope of what’s being done, and I can use this last merger as a great one. Pick an organization, it may be a handful of people. In our case, there’s about four people, four to six folks, and we called it the red team, and that would help you see your blind spots. Gee, I missed this, or this isn’t going to go well. So that helped to get to the end state, knock the objectives out that were necessary, reorganization, and with all of that, people still mattered.
In our case, we had several thousand civilians. We had to relook some job descriptions, determine which ones had to move or not, manage retirements. All of that was still key, to include the uniform folks as well. So the people, probably the biggest thing. And with that, also put together great planning team. I put it in three simple bins: what we must do, nice-to-haves, and what we just can’t. All those must-do missions for the Army were identified, and how were those must-do missions still going to be executed? They’re being executed today by the new command that stood up, and stood up successfully.
And my last point, I mentioned humility. Have the humility, the leader himself or herself, the humility and the maturity, take your ego out of it. When you put both shoulders in, this is critical for the Army, this had to happen and happen successfully, so take your ego out of it and execute. And if you have to have a pity party, close the door and have one. It’s okay. We’re all human, but if you own it and you want to do it well with the organization, those characteristics I mentioned could help and leverage the great team that you had all along to help get it done.
Adam: What do you look for in the people who you want on your team? What are the keys to building a great team?
General Brito: Honesty, a strong character, and I’ll define it as you’re a decent person, where your values and morals mean something to you, treating folks with dignity and respect. I look for that as well. Personally, I didn’t like arrogance. Wasn’t going to demonstrate it from my level. Didn’t need you on the team doing it from your level, because it just kind of fractured things.
Also, someone that wouldn’t tolerate behavior that was corrosive to the organization, whether it’s just poor language, any type of harassment that just kind of decays the organization. Just don’t need that, and if you’re that type of person, don’t need to be on the team, and regardless of your rank, doesn’t matter, just don’t need you on the team.
So that was summed up, Adam, team player, an honest person, someone willing to learn and grow, because we’re all going to have a bad day, we’re all going to make a mistake. We all just got to get over it, move on, and at some level, the senior guy has to own the risk. The leader has to own the risk, but be that type of person who’s not afraid to get out there and execute things. Humble, authentic team player, and specifically for a leader, what I look for and try to emulate when possible is give credit to others in your organization, especially when they earned it. You might be surprised the unlocking of potential by either pat on the back, a piece-of-paper certificate, or, “Hey, Sergeant John Smith developed this, and look how great it’s going.” That’s what selfless leadership is all about, and the talent in any organization is out there. When you do that, just be surprised what you unlock and untap.
Adam: You’re speaking to a topic that I wanted to raise with you, which is motivation. You’ve led in all different types of environments, from combat to a big office, where you were in charge of almost 40,000 people. What are the keys to motivating people regardless of the environment that you are in and that they are in?
General Brito: Be very positive. I learned over time, both looking at role models and mentors of mine, and as you get little wrinkles in your eyes, the impact of just being positive every day. Call it rose-colored glasses, and I do think that carries a long way. A mentor of mine, I won’t own the term, because you probably heard it before, that leaders aren’t allowed to have a bad day, or generals aren’t allowed to have a bad day. I think that carries some merit, because if the big person at the top is having a bad day, everybody’s going to know it.
So being genuinely positive is a good way to motivate folks, and be real about it. Taking some 30 seconds to pat someone on the back or shake their hand when you walk into the building goes a long way. Just talking to somebody at Starbucks that’s in uniform can go a long way, not that you have to, because you want to. I mentioned all that in the beginning, so that helps motivate people.
And then also, I know you’ve heard this in your many years of experience, be that role model. So if you’re in a unit that has physical training, or you could be a CEO of an organization, have an organizational day, show up. Show up to those that are participating in it, and be in that formation. Go to the award ceremony. Attend a reenlistment for the military, or attend a promotion if you’re an organization. Those things help motivate.
I would also share, you mentioned combat, and I know all my peers have mastered this as well. There’s no substitute for hard, standards-based training. The same would apply to a tech organization as it does in the service. There’s no substitute for it, because in combat, the bullet doesn’t discriminate, the enemy doesn’t discriminate. You want to make sure the young men and women that were in your charge are ready, and an organization should want to do the same. So that, in essence, I guess it may not be defined as motivating, it is defined as ensuring that they’re ready, and there’s no substitute for it.
Adam: What you shared is actually somewhat counterintuitive to the way that I think a lot of people might perceive the way people are motivated within the military, if they don’t otherwise know. People might think that motivation takes place through yelling and screaming, and the kinds of things we see in movies in Hollywood, and what you shared is the exact opposite. Motivation takes place through role modeling behavior. Motivation takes place through consistency. Motivation takes place through authenticity, wanting to help people, wanting to bring out the best in others through the small actions, the pat on the back, the high five, the smile, the genuine smile. Motivation takes place through competence, through preparation, by making sure that the people who you’re leading are going to be prepared, are going to be ready, are going to show up in a position where they are going to be able to perform to the best of their abilities.
General Brito: I like the way you put that, Adam, and I would say there’s a time and place for the example you gave, like the professional drill sergeant, or the professional firefighter trainer, or FBI instructor, just hitting the whole environment that is necessary at a time and place. The latter part of a leader’s career may not be as effective or long lasting. So think about that, and you definitely don’t want anything that will contribute to a toxic environment, because that’s easy to create, hard to fix later on, and it just erodes the potential in any organization when you have a toxic environment who creates a level of fear, could create a level of mistrust, and you just don’t want it. So it’s a measure that I think you learn to balance in just having some time in the seat.
Adam: What should leaders avoid to ensure that they are not creating a toxic environment? What does toxic leadership look like to you, and how can it be avoided?
General Brito: Anyone where you demean another person, especially in front of other people, language that you might not have to use, language that could be perceived as team building in one environment but offensive to another. So avoid those types of things, and you have to have a sense for all of the folks in the organization to understand what may be a joke to John is an insult to Sally, or a compliment to Sally is an insult to John. So think through those things.
A friend of mine told me, especially if it’s on something like email, once you hit send, it’s gone, and it’s not coming back. So you need to think through those things. Not to say that you’re holding hands and painting flowers and giving pink coffee mugs and stuff like that. I’m not saying that at all. I’m saying think of the environment, and I would say, especially in uniform, there’s a lot behind the profession, and be a professional.
Granted, I would say Second Lieutenant Brito, I know for doggone sure, said things that were stupid that I would look at now and say, wow, where’d that come from? What else, Second Lieutenant Brito? You learn over time, and I wouldn’t have done it as Lieutenant Colonel or General Brito now, because I’m a professional, and that means a lot. It means a lot to me on the oath that I’ve taken, just like any profession would as well.
To get to your question, things I would avoid: offensive language, anything that’s counter to the profession that you’re working in, and you’ll know what they are, whether it’s joining the military or an organization of some type. You’ll know what you represent. Anything that’s counter to your mission and vision as well. In my case, I knew what the Army profession was about: strong character, reputation, ethics, and values. If you counter that, you’re going to create a level of toxicity. Favoritism, language, acceptance, and tolerance of behavior that is just not good for the organization is going to lead to some level of a lack of productivity that you just don’t want. And for the military, who exists to go to war, anything that counters that, there’s a problem. You keep that as your true north, you’ll do the right thing.
Adam: You led recruiting and retention efforts within the United States Army. What are your best tips for leaders on the topics of recruiting and retaining talent?
General Brito: I would like to take it left a little bit, Adam, and give credit to leaders within the recruiting command. Now, my first-year command, I had direct oversight of it due to some organizational changes. I had a connection to it, but I want to give credit to that organization still.
Here’s some things that made a difference: leadership mattered. A great leader from the three-star on down, great leaders within the organization making things happen, that made a difference. Took some time to dissect the organization and see what worked. Policies, budget, and restructure helped it as well. This moved it into the environment that we had to work with post-COVID, which obviously was a couple years ago. What motivated soldiers to join, incentives, and all that helped with retention as well, but in essence, if I had to pick one term, leadership mattered in this case.
Policies that took care of people as well, leadership, talent management, placement of recruiters made all the difference in the world. And then in the Army’s case, which had probably the bigger problem three-ish years ago, putting the entire Army behind the solution made the needle go in the right direction. Battalion commanders involved, squad leaders involved, generals involved, recruiters involved. The Army got behind the solution, supported by the Army staff. Great leadership, I won’t mention his name, who’s still commanding the organization, turned that tide slowly and successfully.
And then we also stood up an organization called the Future Soldier Prep Course, which still exists today, that gave soldiers who wanted to join but needed help with academics or physical fitness get in shape and pass the test before they go on to basic training. So innovation, innovation, leadership, and the whole Army behind it.
Adam: The key theme that I’m hearing from you is to successfully recruit and retain talent, you need investment from the top. You need buy-in from your most senior leaders. If they are on board, if they are willing to invest not only financially but invest with their own time, if they truly care, that’s going to make a world of difference.
General Brito: It did, and then recruiters who wanted to recruit made all the difference also. So this has been successful. I give all the credit to the leader of that organization right now, and the Army putting their shoulders behind this. I think it was announced just the other day that they met their recruiting goals this year four months early, and that’s not the first time. So big kudos to all.
Adam: General Brito, what can anyone listening to this conversation do to become more successful personally and professionally?
General Brito: Sounds like a simple question, but it’s really hard.
Adam: That’s why I ask it.
General Brito: I guess I’ll close with one big thing: know your why. If your why is to ensure your organization is the best it can be every single day, ready for change, ready to innovate, ready to get to the next goal and horizon, that why will help motivate you. If you are arrogant, immature, or the opposite of humility, fix it or go do something else, because your decisions will hurt somebody, whether a person or people or the organization.
And over time, try to understand the value of selfless leadership. There are lots of books and mentors to talk to, and see some of those mentors, speak with them, and that’ll help you be an effective leader. We’re all going to have good traits and bad traits. There’s no perfect model with the several models out there of which we could plug and play from, and then be unique and authentic with it.
Invest, invest, invest in those folks behind you. At the end of the day, I retired seven months-ish ago, but I can still talk to folks in a mentor-type role, and you can’t get any more gratification than that.
Adam: General Brito, thank you for all of the advice, and thank you for being a part of Thirty Minute Mentors.
General Brito: Adam, I can’t thank you enough. I enjoyed our conversation. Thanks for what you do, and what I know you’re going to continue to keep on doing. I’m looking forward to working with you again. Thank you.
Adam: Really appreciate it.
