General CQ Brown, Jr. is a retired four-star general who served as the 21st Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the highest-ranking officer in the United States military. General Brown previously served as Chief of Staff of the Air Force, becoming the first African American to lead a branch of the United States Armed Forces. General Brown joins Adam to share his journey and his best lessons and advice. General Brown and Adam discuss leadership, career success, approachability and relatability, crisis management, innovation, trust, and much more.
Join Adam and the best network of mentors – Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal-winning athletes, political and military leaders – for intimate half-hour conversations each week.
Thirty Minute Mentors is available wherever you listen to podcasts. If you enjoy the episode, visit your favorite podcasting app and subscribe, rate, and leave a review, and spread the word by sharing on your social media channels and sharing directly with your friends and colleagues.
Read the full transcript of Adam’s conversation with General CQ Brown, Jr.
Episode Summary
General CQ Brown, Jr., the retired four-star general who served as the 21st Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and, before that, as the 22nd Chief of Staff of the Air Force, grew up in a military family. His father was an Army officer whose assignments took the family from San Antonio to Monterey, California, Lawton, Oklahoma, Germany, and Newport News, Virginia. When the family moved to Germany, his father told him he would see things most kids only read about, and General Brown says that line carried through a career in which he got to do things most people only read about. He and his wife, he says, are ordinary people who have had extraordinary opportunities, and opportunity only matters if you deliver on it.
He went to Texas Tech University planning to spend four years as an Air Force engineer and then move back to Texas. A ride in a T-37 at ROTC summer camp changed that. He earned a pilot slot during his senior year, and the Air Force, as he puts it, got four decades instead of four years. Some of his most important moves came from listening to mentors rather than following his own plan. After serving as aide to the Chief of Staff of the Air Force, a role he still doesn’t know who recommended him for, he asked to go back to flying and was assigned a staff tour instead. When he asked the three-star head of Air Force personnel why, the general mapped out his career and his family’s timeline on a legal pad. General Brown went four years and 11 months without flying, a path few fighter pilots would choose, and he credits that meeting with setting up his rise to the top of the Air Force and the military.
General Brown tells Adam that it’s not who you know but who knows you: people are always watching how you carry yourself and how you handle jobs that aren’t popular. The best way out of a job you don’t like, he says, is to do it well. He describes the period after George Floyd was killed in May 2020, while he was commanding Pacific Air Forces and his nomination as Air Force Chief of Staff was pending. After his son called and asked, in effect, what he was going to say, he recorded and posted a video without notifying his superiors, accepting the risk to his confirmation because it was the right thing to do. The Senate confirmed him days later by a vote of 98 to 0.
He also shares the leadership mantra of the U.S. Air Force Weapons School, where he was a student, an instructor, and later commandant: humble, approachable, and credible. He explains why he tries to listen more than he talks, why he wanted to have “the meeting after the meeting in the meeting,” and why earned respect produces initiative while demanded respect produces compliance. He discusses leading through the October 7 attacks during his first week as Chairman, failing his first F-16 check ride as a new lieutenant in Korea, why diverse perspectives guard against groupthink, and why you should always ask for what you want while making sure you are qualified for it.
What You’ll Learn
- It’s not who you know but who knows you, General Brown says: supervisors and peers are always watching how you carry yourself, and the best way out of a job you don’t like is to do it well.
- Stay open to paths you didn’t plan, because mentors may be developing you for opportunities you can’t yet see, as General Brown learned when a staff tour he resisted, and nearly five years out of the cockpit, set up his rise to the top of the Air Force.
- When the safe choice and the right choice diverge, choose the right one, General Brown says, as he did by posting a video after George Floyd’s killing while his confirmation as Air Force Chief of Staff was still pending.
- Be humble, approachable, and credible, the Air Force Weapons School mantra General Brown leads by, because credibility and humility make people willing to bring you the honest feedback senior leaders rarely hear.
- Have “the meeting after the meeting in the meeting,” General Brown says: listen more than you talk so concerns and dissent surface where you can act on them, not in the hallway afterward.
- Earn respect rather than demand it, General Brown says, because people who respect you take initiative so they don’t disappoint you, while people who fear you do only enough to stay out of trouble.
About General CQ Brown, Jr.
General CQ Brown, Jr. is a retired four-star general who served as the 21st Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff from 2023 to 2025. He previously served as the 22nd Chief of Staff of the U.S. Air Force from 2020 to 2023, becoming the first African American to lead a branch of the U.S. Armed Forces, and earlier commanded Pacific Air Forces and U.S. Air Forces Central Command. A fighter pilot with more than 3,000 flying hours, including 130 combat hours, he was commissioned in 1984 through Air Force ROTC at Texas Tech University, where he earned a degree in civil engineering. He retired in 2025 after more than four decades of service.
Related Episodes
- Episode 18: General Martin Dempsey
For more on serving as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Dempsey discusses the core tenets of effective leadership, overcoming failure, and decision-making at the highest levels. - Episode 153: General Larry Spencer
For more on rising to the top of the Air Force, General Spencer discusses his journey from inner-city Washington, D.C. to Air Force Vice Chief of Staff, along with mentorship, diversity and inclusion, and overcoming obstacles. - Episode 159: Former Secretary of the Air Force Deborah Lee James
For more on leading the Air Force, Secretary James discusses serving as Secretary of the Air Force, leading in times of crisis, and managing anxiety and pressure. - Episode 25: Lieutenant General Thomas Trask
For more on building trust in a diverse team, Lieutenant General Trask discusses his 33 years in the Air Force, from flying rescue and special operations helicopters to serving as Vice Commander of U.S. Special Operations Command. - Episode 144: MLB Manager Joe Maddon
For more on building winning cultures, Joe discusses leading people and teams as a three-time MLB Manager of the Year and two-time World Series champion, along with success, failure, and mentorship.
